Chapters 16-18
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Please post your question, comment, or connection here. Feel free to include your thoughts related to the hero's quest archetype or to the big ideas of friendship, loyalty, personal responsibility, identity, self-knowledge, perception, etc.
The brief scene that follows Reb Saunder’s explanation for his continued silence perfectly parallels the story of the friendship of Reuven and Danny.
ReplyDeleteThe explanation leaves Danny in tears, and his father leaves the room. Reuven heard his cries, went over to him, and began to cry with him. Yet Danny continued to cry as Reuven stopped and looked outside.
Just as:
The silence gave Danny great pain, for his father would not speak to him. Reuven befriended him, learned of his story, and began to understand his pain. Yet while Reuven was able to live most of his life out of silence, it will remain a part of Danny forever.
What I found to be profound about these final chapters was Reb Saunders’ lesson. By the end, he seemed to not care about the continuation of the dynasty, but the morals that it embodied. Those are what he wanted to ensure would survive, that was his desired legacy. This can be applied to almost all the facets of life. Materialistic things, no matter how prestigious, do not truly matter, for they will all erode or be destroyed eventually. What can never die, when preserved and cultivated correctly, are values.
But do you think that what Reb Saunders did to Danny was morally right? Although the Hasidim are taught to raise their children in silence, and although Reb Saunders had personal experience with his brother whose mind "burned with hunger for knowledge," was it really right for him to raise Danny by barely speaking to him? (Potok 264). I did kind of understand where he was coming from, as he wanted Danny to not only have a mind but a soul, but I think Danny was really tortured by the silence, which is why Reuven felt very sympathetic for him.
DeleteThat is a good point, but I also believe that Reb Saunder's method of raising Danny was about more than values; it was about the survival of those values. As David Malter expressed time and time again throughout the book, the Jews have a responsibility to ensure the preservation of Jewish life. That is part of why Reb Saunders kept up this silence. Ultimately, it did not matter whether or not Danny became a Tzaddik, but whether or not he was an "observer of the commandments." As we have seen, Reb Saunders always tolerates people who are "observers of the commandments"(like David Malter). He wants to keep Jewish values alive in the world. So, while Reb Saunders was immoral to his son, he was actually trying to make the world a more moral place by passing those values on, even if his method of doing so was through silence.
DeleteI agree with what Hamza is saying here, that his father did it to keep traditions alive tzaddik traditions. But that begs the question; Why tho? Even if tradition say one thing, if it’s immoral then it’s immoral. After research, I found that it was all to teach Daniel was a way to teach him compassion, to teach him to feel the suffering of others. Reb Saunders learned through silence to turn inward, to feel his own pain and, in doing so, to suffer for his people. He says that bearing this burden of suffering is a fundamental part of being a tzaddik. Basically, “It makes us aware of how frail and tiny we are and of how much we must depend upon the Master of the Universe.”-Reb Saunders
DeleteI agree that it may not be the conventional or 'correct' way of raising a child, but according to their beliefs, the silence teaches the children very important lessons.
DeleteI also think it is intriguing that when Danny stops talking to Reuven for a couple years, Reuven feels the silence is choking him and is unbearable. As Hamza wrote originally, the silence gave Danny great pain, but Reuven did not fully comprehend this pain. I think that even by the end of the book, Reuven does not understand the importance and the true 'sound' of silence. Danny seems to be much more affected by the silence. Reuven is used to his father's methods of talking things out and teaching Reuven things on his own, but Danny was left to grow up by himself. Due to this, Danny got accustomed to it and has learned the positive effects. Reuven has not learned the positive effects, so he felt that the silence between him and Danny was cruel and awful.
I think it is very interesting that the silence and cutting out Reuven was part of a plan to actually help both Reuven and Danny become "men". The idea of hurting/helping and how everything happens for a reason is present here. I also find it interesting that Reb Saunders apologizes for his actions considering he made those choices. And, he says that he isn't wise. A rabbi bashing himself for his decisions shows the depths of his character. Acting tough but really struggling inside humanizes him a lot.
ReplyDeleteIn the last chapter Reb talks about balance between the soul and worldly attributes. This provides a very interesting insight. He is afraid of the gifts his son was given because he thought his soul would overwhelmed by his genius. He was trying to bring out the power of Danny soul through this silence. However this did help Danny but to what extent. I am wondering if it was really worth it for Reb to raise Danny in this way?
ReplyDeleteI’m wondering that too, however now as Danny is older and understands the reasons why he says he might raise his children in silence too. Danny may have been miserable but he knows why finally and understands the reasoning.
DeleteI have mixed feelings about the way Reb decided to raise Danny. I do agree with the concept and the end result that he is trying to achieve. Suffering causes people to grow together, and by giving Danny a difficult family life, it forced him to seek out companionship himself rather than isolating himself with his knowledge and potential. But I don't really know if Reb had any right to decide this. He basically took his son's childhood and parental relationships away from him, and the idea of forcing suffering upon your child does seem wrong, no matter the reason.
ReplyDeleteI get what you are saying here. In your last sentence, you said that Reb Saunders is forcing suffering upon his child, which is wrong. Isn't it ironic that the whole reason Danny is being raised in silence is so that he has more compassion for those who are suffering, but he has to suffer himself to be able to understand?
DeleteThe final chapter shows how much Danny has grown since the baseball incident. While he hated the silence with his father, and how their relationship was in the beginning, he came to mature and understand his Father’s reasons. While I do not completely agree with Reb Saunders’s explanation of raising Danny in silence, Danny does. He knew it was the only choice his father had to raise a son with a soul. I found it interesting how he even told Mr Malter that he would raise his child in silence (if he had to) even though he knew how much the child would suffer and be hurt due to his own experience. Danny has become what Reb Saunders wanted him to be - A man with a soul *(not a Rabi).
ReplyDeleteAs we close out the book, we learn that the real reason Reb Saunders decided to remain silent to Danny, is so Danny will understand what suffering is like and will look at things from peoples perspective before becoming quick to judge them. I personally, believe that though Reb Saunders is teaching a vital lesson that will remain with Danny for the rest of his life, to cause Danny all this suffering and waiting so long to explain to him seems unreasonable. Putting a youth through this type of experience early on, isn’t necessarily correct no matter what morals he or she may learn. To be disconnected from your father just doesn’t seem fair or right.
ReplyDeleteI think you make a good point here. Just because Danny doesn’t understand what suffering, doesn’t mean that he should have to endure this suffering in order to understand it. There are other ways to teach compassion, starting by showing Danny the faults of the world. While Reb Saunders may see this as “the only way”, it is not necessarily an effective way.
DeleteThe book ends with a chilling comment by Danny. When David Malter asks him if he will raise his own son in silence, Danny replies that he would. This tradition of raising your kids in silence means that Danny knows no other way to raise someone. And while Danny knows the pain, he will inflict that on his son, and the tradition will continue.
ReplyDeleteThat would be very fulfilling for Reb Saunders that Danny turned out well, even if he was caused a lot of pain on the process. It is probable that Danny’s child(ren) won’t really understand, but if Danny were to explain it to them, they might feel better about it.
DeleteI find it interesting that over the course of the book, we are presented with the information that Reb Saunders is the 'enemy' to Reuven and his beliefs. However, by the end of the book, we get very interesting twist that shows us the motivations behind Reb's actions, and humanizes him as a character
ReplyDeleteSomething I am still unsure of is why the book is named The Chosen. Is “The Chosen” referring to Jewish people in general, or specifically one character? Maybe the ambiguity of the name was intentional?
ReplyDeleteWill Danny’s father ever regret his choices? Will he regret not making memories with his son as a child?
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DeleteHe probably will, seeing that he barely spent any time with his son growing up. But, he did raise danny in the way that he wanted him to be, and later on in life, once danny had the capacity to understand complex ideas, it makes for successful parenting that danny thinks he will follow. I guess this is successful parenting, but really the idea of successful parenting is subjective
In the last chapter, everything is revealed, and I found it particularly interesting, though not completely surprising, when Danny tells Reuvens father that he would raise his son in silence as well. Throughout the novel we see silence as the target of hatred, first with Danny and his father, then with Reuven and Danny. However, the last chapter turns that around and we really see the development of Danny as a person, as well as the realization of a bigger picture and his fathers motives. He realizes how his father's silence has led him to become the person that he is, and opts to do the same with his child too.
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