I found it interesting that while Reuven initially had no,problem with Danny Saunders, he grew to despise him over the course of the game. While I think that part of this is due to the fact that Danny called him and his teammates apikorsim, Reuven’s hatred could also be spurred by the fact that Danny’s late-game heroics out-heroed Reuven’s earlier catch, and humiliated Reuven so much that his team became demoralized. Danny spat on both of Reuven’s sources of pride: his faith in Judaism, and his skill in softball. It would be hard for Reuven not to maintain his hatred for Danny after a first impression so wounding as this.
I assume it is foreshadowing that Reuven mentions, "..all of us wondered why he was not off somewhere fighting in the war"(p.11). He must start fighting or something will be uncovered as to why he can't?
Adding onto this, Mr. Galanter continues to say that there's, "a war on" to the team, maybe also adding to the foreshadowing that either Reuven or another team member will be sent off to fight.
Agreed, this is definitely foreshadowing. Alternatively, the war could also be metaphorical instead of physical. In the intro doc, it talked about having to redefine their relationships with their fathers and their faith, so it could be an internal war, within themselves, as well as an individual.
I found it interesting how pervasive the religious culture is to Reuven and the other kids, even as they play sports. They wear black skull caps as they play. There is a constant stream of religiously fueled insults. This is even reflected in Reuven’s thoughts as he casts his anger towards the other team, “I found myself wondering again how they had learned to hit the ball like that if time for the study of Torah was so precious to them...”(p.28).
Does the rabbi believe that God will be angered if his team loses or does he say this just as a threat? If this is a threat, does he care more about winning than being kind and fair players? Which would God rather?
This is a point I wondered about as well. Would the rabbi genuinely be angered if his team lost, or does he use an emotional front as an incentive to his players.
Chapter 3 ends with Reuven talking to Danny about Danny’s relationship with his father. Danny says that his father “wishes everyone could talk in silence” (Potok72). This is an interesting idea. If people talked in silence, would their be less conflict, or more? Would it help people like Reuven understand people like Danny at first meeting, or would it do the exact opposite?
I find it interesting how Jewish schools needed to prove athleticism despite the overachievement in other areas of education. This shows how america valued fitness and athleticm maybe over education. This may be because fit people were needed for the war, but in my opinion, educated people are good for war efforts too.
Mr. Galanter is the definition of what a coach should be. He’s strict and serious about the game (Screamed at Goldberg for not being in his place) yet he’s also caring. He took the narrator to the hospital, and looked after him to the point where the nurse thought he was the father.
I was wondering about Reuven's father's theory about true friends. "..two people who are true friends are like two bodies with one soul." (page 74) I think that this quote firstly suggests a theme of friendship throughout the book. I was wondering if it also possibly foreshadows the two boys' futures and unlikely closeness? If they become true friends, they would share common beliefs, and on a grander scale, a common soul. Would this change the way their future's play out?
I find it interesting how the author shows just how impressionable adults are on kids. If you really think about it most of these kids ideas and biases come off of their parents belief (like when Reuben’s team is told the other team are “murderers”) I think that this dependence of others ideas is really going to change through the novel while Reuven comes of age and comes to his own ideas (wether those are similar to those of his parents/religious group or slightly different)
A theme that occurs throughout book one and probably throughout the whole book is on stereotypes and judgement, and how they can be deceiving. Reuven's only impression of the Hasids he gets from his dad. As a result of that stigma and also the fact that Danny hurt Reuven's eye, Reuven acts very rudely to Danny when he comes to apologize. However, as he begins to know Danny, he discovers that he is quite nice and thoughtful, contrary to what he expected (especially being Reb Saunders's son), breaking the stereotype that Reuven originally had.
During the first two chapters, Potok keeps doing this thing where he introduces a minor character to Reuven who has no significance and reveals something that seems to be irrelevant. For example, at the beginning of Chapter 2 on page 35, Reuven narrates,”The man held up his finger. ‘Car door,’ he said. ‘My kid slammed it on me’.” The man simply leaves and that’s it. Potok does it again on page 43. Revues again narrates, “I saw a boy of about ten or eleven. He was lying in bed with his head on the pillow......”. We then get minimal dialogue from him and we learn he’s blind and that’s it. Does Potok do it to demonstrate the environment of a hospital? Or is it just unnecessary?
Correction; the boy that Reuben saw turned out to be Billy who Reuben would grow into a steady relationship with throughout his time at the hospital. My bad.
When Danny visits Reuven for the second time in Chapter 3, he mentions how he never stops thinking about something until he understands it. This is evidenced by how troubled he was over his feelings of hate towards Reuven. Yet, he also describes his ability to immediately memorize and understand pages of the Talmud. This suggests that Judaism simply isn’t complex enough for Danny. The questions that Judaism pose are not the ones he wishes to answer. Unfortunately for him, tradition binds him to those questions which he finds so uninteresting. His hatred for Reuven was seemingly fueled by his background. So why does Danny draw his hate from his religion? That is the kind of question that he wishes to ponder, where Judaism is not the answer, but the cause of the problem.
In chapter 3, it was mentioned that Reuven father wanted him to become a mathematician, while Reven wanted to become a Rabbi. In chapter 4, it was mentioned tha Danny’s father wanted him to become a Rabbi, while Danny wanted to become a psychologist. Both children have a dream, a passion of theirs that they are actually excited and entertained about. But, they are restricted from dreaming them because of their parents pressures and high expectations.
I was confused and interested by what Danny’s dad said about speaking in silence would be the best way because words jumble up what a person really feels. I get the part about the words not going with how you feel but I don’t get what it would mean by silence would be the best way. Is it something deep that I’m not getting or is it to walk around in silence to avoid conflict. If it is about avoiding conflict I think the dads beliefs are impractical and not good because even though words made conflict between the two boys it also brought them together for what looks like is going to be an amazing friendship.
I find it interesting how Danny and Reuven's ambitions are different, yet sort of parallel each other: Danny wants to go into science while his father wants him to be a religious leader, and Reuven wants to be a rabbi but his father wants him to be a mathematician. Their situations are equal but opposite
I know I already posted, but I gotta tell y’all this. “No one knows he is fortunate until he becomes unfortunate” -Father. This saying is quite true and applies to all of us as we are all fortunate, yet most of us don’t even acknowledge it. I was always aware that I had a working left arm, but I never recognized how fortunate I was to have it until I broke it.
Yes, I believe that this line really shows how everyone must be thankful for the little things in life. We are all privileged to be alive, and many of us have other privileges.
I think this also corresponds with the idea of having a 'blind spot'. Every person has a blind spot about their privileges. We all grow up thinking that everyone in the world lives like us, and we only understand the falsehood in that once we experience it ourselves. As you said Greg, you could really only comprehend what it was like to live your life without using your left arm until you physically experienced that.
Exchanges like this one make me proud! Thanks so much for connecting ideas in the novel to important reminders from which we can benefit and gain perspective.
The epigraph basically explains how such a conflict between faiths came to be. The way it says "I was a son to my father" gives the impression that this son doesn't matter, his identity is his father. Along with "Let your heart hold fast to my words...", it shows the way that prejudices are passed down from father and son, taught in a way that excludes everything but a single point of view. The sons aren't allowed to learn things for themselves, but so-called facts are forced upon them. It's also interesting how both Reuven and Danny all show examples of not following their fathers wishes, showing how they would be able to see around their prejudice.
Chapter 3 starts off with Potok describing D-Day. How does this relate to the main plot of the story occurring at the moment about the relationship between Reuven and Danny? It seems as if the war is going to be brought up in multiple occasions throughout the novel and I am interested to see what relevance it will bring to the story. Maybe the war will affect these characters and their reactions to these events will play an important role in the book.
Yes! World War II provides a historical backdrop for the novel. Many allusions to it and other historical events remind us that although people may not be directly impacted by something on the global stage, we are nonetheless influenced by such conflicts.
In the first chapter the rabbi is portrayed as almost being higher than the other coach as well as the players. I feel that this leads to the players getting the same attitude towards Reuven and his team. I think this is part of the reason that sparked this conflict that led to Reuven’s injury. Also I think this attitude reflects the barrier between their religions that they will have to overcome letter in the book.
inference: his dad is going to die. in the hospital, he refuses to tell reuven that he’s getting worse because he doesn’t want to worry him even more than he already is. he acts suspiciously, which all points to “he’s gonna die”. (ch.2) confirmed: this man (parental) is definitely gonna die. sunken cheeks, red eyes, ashen face, coughing, has a “cold” (ch.4)
In the book, it seems to contrast the ideals of religion, with the ideals with the people who follow it. For example, Danny has to be a priest, yet he wants to be a psychologist, and doesn't get a choice in the matter. It brings up an interesting moral question of whether to follow your religious beliefs, or your own ideas
Yes, this is an idea that I think will play out later in the book. Choosing religion over personality or vice versa will be something Reuven and Danny will be thinking about a lot. At the end, they may decide to choose one over the other, or find a compromise between the two.
You can see the clashing relationships between Danny and Reuven in how their histories cross over each other. The events of World War II are important to Jewish history and to world history in general. We see that Danny and Reuven’s relationship is inseparable from its historical context, boundaries and experience force the characters to examine the relationship between tradition and moderntiy. For example, the future of the two people are restricted, with Rueven wanting to be a rabbi but having the pressure to become a mathematician.
While reading the chapters, I found it interesting how Reuven’s father is so strict about continuing his religious practice even though he is in the hospital. I am curious to see if there is a disconnect between him and his father, and if they are having trouble having a good relationship.
I have to disagree, it seems to me that although Reuven's father asks him to continue his religious practice while in the hospital, he respects that his son is injured. Reuven doesn't seem angry that he is asked to do this, it is an important part of his life that doesn't go away.
I noticed how Reuven initially didn’t hate Danny at all, even though Danny called him a “fake jewish”. It wasn’t until Danny visited the hospital that Reuven exploded and rejected his apology. Was it because he was hit in his eye, or was it because he finally understood Danny hated him for who he was?
Since Danny and Ruevens dads what the opposite of what their kids want, I was wondering if that might bring Danny and Rueben together. This shared experience might help them connect and they also might get to know the other persons father better.
Yes, this is especially prominent in our society today, a lot because of media and the technological boom of the last few decades. Because of this, the pressure that kids feel by their parents’ or society’s expectations seem like a lot. Furthermore, it seems ironic that Reuven and Danny both have set expectations by their parents that the other would rather have. This irony might be an emphasis on the characterization and relationship they would have throughout the book.
Reuven and Danny share similar experiences considering what there fathers want from them and how it differentiates from what they want, will this make them closer? Perhaps help gain the confidence to admit this fact to there parents?
I found the first four chapters to be very interesting, in particular the hatred between Reuven and Danny. Why did Danny's baseball team aim to kill Reuven and his? Were they all like Danny, who afterwards questioned his actions and motives? What are the reasons Danny and Reuven hated each other so passionately during that game? And will their similar experiences and positions in life cause them to become closer?
I found it interesting that while Reuven initially had no,problem with Danny Saunders, he grew to despise him over the course of the game. While I think that part of this is due to the fact that Danny called him and his teammates apikorsim, Reuven’s hatred could also be spurred by the fact that Danny’s late-game heroics out-heroed Reuven’s earlier catch, and humiliated Reuven so much that his team became demoralized. Danny spat on both of Reuven’s sources of pride: his faith in Judaism, and his skill in softball. It would be hard for Reuven not to maintain his hatred for Danny after a first impression so wounding as this.
ReplyDeleteI assume it is foreshadowing that Reuven mentions, "..all of us wondered why he was not off somewhere fighting in the war"(p.11). He must start fighting or something will be uncovered as to why he can't?
ReplyDeleteAdding onto this, Mr. Galanter continues to say that there's, "a war on" to the team, maybe also adding to the foreshadowing that either Reuven or another team member will be sent off to fight.
DeleteAgreed, this is definitely foreshadowing. Alternatively, the war could also be metaphorical instead of physical. In the intro doc, it talked about having to redefine their relationships with their fathers and their faith, so it could be an internal war, within themselves, as well as an individual.
DeleteI found it interesting how pervasive the religious culture is to Reuven and the other kids, even as they play sports. They wear black skull caps as they play. There is a constant stream of religiously fueled insults. This is even reflected in Reuven’s thoughts as he casts his anger towards the other team, “I found myself wondering again how they had learned to hit the ball like that if time for the study of Torah was so precious to them...”(p.28).
ReplyDeleteDoes the rabbi believe that God will be angered if his team loses or does he say this just as a threat? If this is a threat, does he care more about winning than being kind and fair players? Which would God rather?
ReplyDeleteThis is a point I wondered about as well. Would the rabbi genuinely be angered if his team lost, or does he use an emotional front as an incentive to his players.
ReplyDeleteChapter 3 ends with Reuven talking to Danny about Danny’s relationship with his father. Danny says that his father “wishes everyone could talk in silence” (Potok72). This is an interesting idea. If people talked in silence, would their be less conflict, or more? Would it help people like Reuven understand people like Danny at first meeting, or would it do the exact opposite?
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting how Jewish schools needed to prove athleticism despite the overachievement in other areas of education. This shows how america valued fitness and athleticm maybe over education. This may be because fit people were needed for the war, but in my opinion, educated people are good for war efforts too.
ReplyDeleteMr. Galanter is the definition of what a coach should be. He’s strict and serious about the game (Screamed at Goldberg for not being in his place) yet he’s also caring. He took the narrator to the hospital, and looked after him to the point where the nurse thought he was the father.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering about Reuven's father's theory about true friends. "..two people who are true friends are like two bodies with one soul." (page 74) I think that this quote firstly suggests a theme of friendship throughout the book. I was wondering if it also possibly foreshadows the two boys' futures and unlikely closeness? If they become true friends, they would share common beliefs, and on a grander scale, a common soul. Would this change the way their future's play out?
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting how the author shows just how impressionable adults are on kids. If you really think about it most of these kids ideas and biases come off of their parents belief (like when Reuben’s team is told the other team are “murderers”) I think that this dependence of others ideas is really going to change through the novel while Reuven comes of age and comes to his own ideas (wether those are similar to those of his parents/religious group or slightly different)
ReplyDeleteA theme that occurs throughout book one and probably throughout the whole book is on stereotypes and judgement, and how they can be deceiving. Reuven's only impression of the Hasids he gets from his dad. As a result of that stigma and also the fact that Danny hurt Reuven's eye, Reuven acts very rudely to Danny when he comes to apologize. However, as he begins to know Danny, he discovers that he is quite nice and thoughtful, contrary to what he expected (especially being Reb Saunders's son), breaking the stereotype that Reuven originally had.
ReplyDeleteDuring the first two chapters, Potok keeps doing this thing where he introduces a minor character to Reuven who has no significance and reveals something that seems to be irrelevant. For example, at the beginning of Chapter 2 on page 35, Reuven narrates,”The man held up his finger. ‘Car door,’ he said. ‘My kid slammed it on me’.” The man simply leaves and that’s it. Potok does it again on page 43. Revues again narrates, “I saw a boy of about ten or eleven. He was lying in bed with his head on the pillow......”. We then get minimal dialogue from him and we learn he’s blind and that’s it. Does Potok do it to demonstrate the environment of a hospital? Or is it just unnecessary?
ReplyDeleteCorrection; the boy that Reuben saw turned out to be Billy who Reuben would grow into a steady relationship with throughout his time at the hospital. My bad.
DeleteWhen Danny visits Reuven for the second time in Chapter 3, he mentions how he never stops thinking about something until he understands it. This is evidenced by how troubled he was over his feelings of hate towards Reuven. Yet, he also describes his ability to immediately memorize and understand pages of the Talmud. This suggests that Judaism simply isn’t complex enough for Danny. The questions that Judaism pose are not the ones he wishes to answer. Unfortunately for him, tradition binds him to those questions which he finds so uninteresting. His hatred for Reuven was seemingly fueled by his background. So why does Danny draw his hate from his religion? That is the kind of question that he wishes to ponder, where Judaism is not the answer, but the cause of the problem.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what impact Coach Galanatar is going to have in the future on Danny and Reuvens life?
ReplyDeleteIn chapter 3, it was mentioned that Reuven father wanted him to become a mathematician, while Reven wanted to become a Rabbi. In chapter 4, it was mentioned tha Danny’s father wanted him to become a Rabbi, while Danny wanted to become a psychologist. Both children have a dream, a passion of theirs that they are actually excited and entertained about. But, they are restricted from dreaming them because of their parents pressures and high expectations.
ReplyDeleteI was confused and interested by what Danny’s dad said about speaking in silence would be the best way because words jumble up what a person really feels. I get the part about the words not going with how you feel but I don’t get what it would mean by silence would be the best way. Is it something deep that I’m not getting or is it to walk around in silence to avoid conflict. If it is about avoiding conflict I think the dads beliefs are impractical and not good because even though words made conflict between the two boys it also brought them together for what looks like is going to be an amazing friendship.
ReplyDeleteGreat questions about this confusing aspect of the novel! We will learn more about Reb Saunders and his views on raising Danny in silence.
DeleteI find it interesting how Danny and Reuven's ambitions are different, yet sort of parallel each other: Danny wants to go into science while his father wants him to be a religious leader, and Reuven wants to be a rabbi but his father wants him to be a mathematician. Their situations are equal but opposite
ReplyDeleteI know I already posted, but I gotta tell y’all this. “No one knows he is fortunate until he becomes unfortunate” -Father. This saying is quite true and applies to all of us as we are all fortunate, yet most of us don’t even acknowledge it. I was always aware that I had a working left arm, but I never recognized how fortunate I was to have it until I broke it.
ReplyDeleteYes, I believe that this line really shows how everyone must be thankful for the little things in life. We are all privileged to be alive, and many of us have other privileges.
DeleteI think this also corresponds with the idea of having a 'blind spot'. Every person has a blind spot about their privileges. We all grow up thinking that everyone in the world lives like us, and we only understand the falsehood in that once we experience it ourselves. As you said Greg, you could really only comprehend what it was like to live your life without using your left arm until you physically experienced that.
Exchanges like this one make me proud! Thanks so much for connecting ideas in the novel to important reminders from which we can benefit and gain perspective.
DeleteThe epigraph basically explains how such a conflict between faiths came to be. The way it says "I was a son to my father" gives the impression that this son doesn't matter, his identity is his father. Along with "Let your heart hold fast to my words...", it shows the way that prejudices are passed down from father and son, taught in a way that excludes everything but a single point of view. The sons aren't allowed to learn things for themselves, but so-called facts are forced upon them. It's also interesting how both Reuven and Danny all show examples of not following their fathers wishes, showing how they would be able to see around their prejudice.
ReplyDeleteChapter 3 starts off with Potok describing D-Day. How does this relate to the main plot of the story occurring at the moment about the relationship between Reuven and Danny? It seems as if the war is going to be brought up in multiple occasions throughout the novel and I am interested to see what relevance it will bring to the story. Maybe the war will affect these characters and their reactions to these events will play an important role in the book.
ReplyDeleteYes! World War II provides a historical backdrop for the novel. Many allusions to it and other historical events remind us that although people may not be directly impacted by something on the global stage, we are nonetheless influenced by such conflicts.
DeleteIn the first chapter the rabbi is portrayed as almost being higher than the other coach as well as the players. I feel that this leads to the players getting the same attitude towards Reuven and his team. I think this is part of the reason that sparked this conflict that led to Reuven’s injury. Also I think this attitude reflects the barrier between their religions that they will have to overcome letter in the book.
ReplyDeleteinference: his dad is going to die. in the hospital, he refuses to tell reuven that he’s getting worse because he doesn’t want to worry him even more than he already is. he acts suspiciously, which all points to “he’s gonna die”. (ch.2)
ReplyDeleteconfirmed: this man (parental) is definitely gonna die. sunken cheeks, red eyes, ashen face, coughing, has a “cold” (ch.4)
In the book, it seems to contrast the ideals of religion, with the ideals with the people who follow it. For example, Danny has to be a priest, yet he wants to be a psychologist, and doesn't get a choice in the matter. It brings up an interesting moral question of whether to follow your religious beliefs, or your own ideas
ReplyDeleteYes, this is an idea that I think will play out later in the book. Choosing religion over personality or vice versa will be something Reuven and Danny will be thinking about a lot. At the end, they may decide to choose one over the other, or find a compromise between the two.
DeleteYou can see the clashing relationships between Danny and Reuven in how their histories cross over each other. The events of World War II are important to Jewish history and to world history in general. We see that Danny and Reuven’s relationship is inseparable from its historical context, boundaries and experience force the characters to examine the relationship between tradition and moderntiy. For example, the future of the two people are restricted, with Rueven wanting to be a rabbi but having the pressure to become a mathematician.
ReplyDeleteWhile reading the chapters, I found it interesting how Reuven’s father is so strict about continuing his religious practice even though he is in the hospital. I am curious to see if there is a disconnect between him and his father, and if they are having trouble having a good relationship.
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree, it seems to me that although Reuven's father asks him to continue his religious practice while in the hospital, he respects that his son is injured. Reuven doesn't seem angry that he is asked to do this, it is an important part of his life that doesn't go away.
DeleteI noticed how Reuven initially didn’t hate Danny at all, even though Danny called him a “fake jewish”. It wasn’t until Danny visited the hospital that Reuven exploded and rejected his apology. Was it because he was hit in his eye, or was it because he finally understood Danny hated him for who he was?
ReplyDeleteSince Danny and Ruevens dads what the opposite of what their kids want, I was wondering if that might bring Danny and Rueben together. This shared experience might help them connect and they also might get to know the other persons father better.
ReplyDeleteYes, this is especially prominent in our society today, a lot because of media and the technological boom of the last few decades. Because of this, the pressure that kids feel by their parents’ or society’s expectations seem like a lot. Furthermore, it seems ironic that Reuven and Danny both have set expectations by their parents that the other would rather have. This irony might be an emphasis on the characterization and relationship they would have throughout the book.
ReplyDelete^response to Saeyoung’s post
DeleteReuven and Danny share similar experiences considering what there fathers want from them and how it differentiates from what they want, will this make them closer? Perhaps help gain the confidence to admit this fact to there parents?
ReplyDeleteI found the first four chapters to be very interesting, in particular the hatred between Reuven and Danny. Why did Danny's baseball team aim to kill Reuven and his? Were they all like Danny, who afterwards questioned his actions and motives? What are the reasons Danny and Reuven hated each other so passionately during that game? And will their similar experiences and positions in life cause them to become closer?
ReplyDelete