Chapters 8-12
Please post your responses here (you need only post on one of the chapters listed). Feel free to include your thoughts related to the hero's quest archetype or to the big ideas of friendship, loyalty, personal responsibility, identity, self-knowledge, perception, etc.
I just thought it was interesting how fast everything moved in these chapters. Time went by, people changed and ideas changed as well. Reb. Saunders liked Reuven then didn’t, Reuven’s father was doing fine then suddenly was in the hospital, the boys were starting another year of school then suddenly they started college.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the chapters did seem to go by very quickly. I was thinking about why this might of happened and could be because Reuven and Danny weren’t spending as much time together. They were both really busy with school work and extracurricular activities that their friendship didn’t really grow. Their friendship seems to be the main plot of the story so far so this could be one explanation for why the time flew by. Near the end of these chapters we see them become closer again when Reuven moves in with Danny and they spend more time together again.
DeleteIn chapter 12, after much confusion, disappointment, and wonder, Reuven is finally able to discover the reason why Danny lives in a house of silence. Reuven is fortunate enough to have a religious father who is unafraid of the secular world, who welcomes new ideas and is eager to discuss them. Reuven is accustomed to this level of comfort around ideas which may challenge Jewish beliefs. So, when he merely shares with Reb Saunders the fact that others believe that the end of the war should bring about the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine, he is unprepared for the eruption that follows. By the end of it, all that Reuven can muster is a weak apology. It all he can say. Danny has surely had a similar experience with his father. And so he chooses to say nothing. No matter how much he may want to reach out to his father, his interest in the secular world prevents him from making that connection, as does Reb Saunders’ firm, unwavering belief in the purity of Judaism. And with all of this clear, the reasons why Danny has turned to the library, the Malters, and Freud become refreshingly clear. They are his only outlets for gaining and testing new and secular knowledge. By confining him to study solely Judaism for most of his life, Reb Saunders has caused Danny to lose interest in it entirely. At the start of the book, Danny destroyed Reuven’s glasses to ensure the Hasids triumphed over Reuven’s band of supposed apikorsim. The glasses were a symbol of non-Hasids, and Danny destroyed them. Yet now, he wears the glasses himself. So what does that make him?
ReplyDeleteMy question was I wonder if Danny really doesn’t like the way he was raised. He seemed to explain it like it was rather perplexing and that it was sometimes confusing.
ReplyDeleteI also have this question, yet I might have the answer. I know that Reuven was frightened by his family, so that says something in regards to Danny’s home life. We also know that he barely talks with his father, only adding to the perplexity of his family. Based off these two points, it’s safe to ASSUME that Danny isn’t the most happy, yet he doesn’t show it.
DeleteI agree. I think that Danny has some reasons to resent his childhood, but it is clear that he shows a deep respect for his father. I think that Reuven is very confused by their relationship and the fact that they don’t talk, but for Danny it is all he knows. The biggest way showing Danny isn’t happy is how he wants to learn. I think that Danny feels restricted by his father and his strict home life. Danny confides in Reuven, saying “I want to be able to breathe, to think what I want to think, to say the things I want to say. I’m trapped now, too. Do you know what it’s like to be trapped?”(Potok 202). Danny is very intelligent, but his father doesn’t let his mind explore. I think that this is what infuriates him the most about his home life.
DeleteI found it very interesting that eyes are a motif throughout the book (so far). The book starts with Reuven getting hit in the eye with the ball and then having to go to the hospital where he meets Billy, who is blind. Throughout the next few chapters there is foreshadowing of what happens to Billy, as Reuven wonders what happened to him. We later find out that Billy’s surgery for his eyes was not successful. I actually think that had a significant impact on Reuven, as he feels grateful and lucky that his eyes ended up being fine... It may have even left him feeling guilty. Another place where eyes are of significance is that Reuven describes Reb Saunders’s eyes as “dark and brooding” (Potok 184, though I believe it is mentioned earlier as well).
ReplyDeleteNow, at the end of Chapter 10 and the beginning of Chapter 11, it is mentioned that Danny often blinks his eyes and seems to be tired (presumably from reading so much). The foreshadowing results in that at the end of Chapter 12, Danny gets glasses!
I was thinking about the eye motif as well... I wonder why Chaim Potok chooses to do this? I think that he might be trying to make a point about how we as people view the world and those who differ from us. How does the world change when we are blind, or can only see out of one eye? Maybe because Danny and Reuven are so restricted by their religious duties, they never truly get to experience the outside world.
DeleteI agree with your point. I think that Potok may be using loss of sight as a metaphor for blind spots; for example after Reuven’s sight is restored he casts aside his intial hard feelings for Danny and the two become friends, even though there are still many differences between them.
Deletethe way that reuven describes danny is very descriptive and observant and has a romantic tone to it. you can see the difference in the way he describes danny and the way he describes anyone else: other descriptions are much more straightforward, like in chapter 1, when he meets mr. savo. he says, “he looked to be in his middle thirties, and he had broad shoulders and a lean face with a square jaw and a dark stubble. his hair was black, combed flat on top of his head and parted in the middle” (potok 39). this is a very list-y description, as reuven is just reading off what he sees, whereas when he describes danny in chapter 8 on page 151, going on for almost the whole page on just how danny reads and turns a page.
ReplyDeleteI think this may have to do with the fact that Reuven didn't expect to become friends with Danny as he is a child his age with different religious values. I think he is overjoyed with his friendship and "looks up" to Danny/kind of thinks of him to be on this pedistal. Danny liked Reuven enough to have him meet his father and accepts him even with the religious barrier in the way. This feeling may be new to Reuven which maybe be why he idolizes Danny.
DeleteI think this may have to do with the fact that Reuven didn't expect to become friends with Danny as he is a child his age with different religious values. I think he is overjoyed with his friendship and "looks up" to Danny/kind of thinks of him to be on this pedistal. Danny liked Reuven enough to have him meet his father and accepts him even with the religious barrier in the way. This feeling may be new to Reuven which maybe be why he idolizes Danny.
DeleteI find it really sad how Danny and his father don’t have a close, personal relationship. It seems as if there’s an ongoing tension between them. When we talked about Reuven being this buffer between two groups in class, it also made me think of Reuven as a buffer between Danny and his father. Reb Saunders talks to Danny, through Reuven.
ReplyDeleteAs the story progresses, it seems more clear to me that Danny and Reuven are somewhat opposites, which could be a reason to why they get along so well.
Also, in chapter 9, Danny tells Reuven that he is lucky since he had such a close and personal relationship with his dad. Yet Reuven doesn’t fully understand why since he has always taken his relationship with his father for granted since he was young. I find it sad that the only person Danny can be personal and honest to, is Reuven since his parents are so strict with him.
DeleteI found it very interesting that Reuven decided to add the only thing that changed about Danny was his glasses. I feel like this is showing how Danny’s view of the world is changing. Danny is learning new things in his readings but this also might mean that he is growing blind spots for other things within his own religion. The glasses help us understand that Danny’s not only physical vision is changing but how interprets certain things.
ReplyDeleteI think that the moment where Reb Saunders speaks to Reuven one on one (in Ch.8) is a really important moment for the plot, and to understand Danny and his father's relationship.
ReplyDeleteReb Saunders cares so deeply for his son that he sees him as the light of his life, his most prized possession. Before, you couldn't really tell that he cared. Danny's father was 'forcing' him to follow a career path that Danny didn't want, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't love him and want the best for him.
I think that this also brings up the importance of religion and parental guidance. Reb Saunders is giving Danny what he truly believes the best possible future. He thinks he is doing everything correctly and is giving his son the best opportunities for the future because he loves him so much.
However, Danny's beliefs do not correspond. He does not desire to be a rabbi in the future.
For Danny, his hopes and dreams will give him the best possible future, but his father (according to his religion) believes differently. I wonder how these two characters will interact based on their two very different plans for Danny's future, despite both coming from good places.
Early on in the Chapter, I found it interesting when Danny and Reuven are talking in the library and Danny bring up a point about Dov Baer and a book on the Jewish people. They cover some really negative viewpoints on Hasidics and describes one particular man named Dov Baer. It's interesting to see how the book exposes him and how he is painted in a bad light because Danny has been taught only good things about it and up9n realizing it he is shocked. I connect it back to the theme of blind spots and how you can be getting fed bad information by your own parents. It was interesting to look at that scene.
ReplyDeleteI’m still a bit confused on why Danny is not a fan of his father, he still loves him, but I don’t understand why he doesnt look up to him like most boys look up to their fathers.
ReplyDeleteI wonder about this as well. When will he go from not looking up to him, to full on disobeying him?
DeleteAs time goes by, I'm wondering if Reuven and Danny's bond will get weaker or stronger. Reuven comments the only thing that has changed about Danny is his glasses, however Danny seems to be changing a lot internally, especially with the pressure from his father, as well as his readings of Freud
ReplyDeleteI was wondering the same thing as well. Will Danny turn to Reuven more, or will the pressure cause him to draw away? And how will Danny's community affect his long-term relationship with Reuven?
DeleteI found it interesting how Reuven and Danny, as well as their fathers, change over these few chapters. As the events of war and life unfold, we see characters show vulnerability for the first time. Danny’s father unleashed a fit of rage for the first time after Reuven’s suggestion to him. Danny seems to always be tired or sad. Reuven’s father breaks composure when he learns of the Holocaust for the first time. Reuven seems to constantly be on guard as he balances his relationship with Danny and his family.
ReplyDeleteIn chapter 8, i found it curious how Danny was reading a book that was harshly criticizing his religion. i was wondering why he was reading that book if he didn't agree with it, and if his father wouldn't want him to read it?
ReplyDeleteIn chapter 8 I found the part where Reb Saunders asks what Danny was reading interesting. In the end everyone was happy he did this and so it makes me wonder why he is so insistent on his silence. Some of his reasons make a little sense but wouldn’t his desire to be involved with his sons life be more important. Either way it is good that Reuven is there to help be the in between.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting how both the Malter's and Saunders'houses share the same layout. It really shows how even though both families are perceived to be very different, they are fundamentally very similar. Also it is important to note how the atmospheres are different. The Saunders' house seems to make Reuven uncomfortable, and there's always this tension in the room, reflecting the lack of communication and understanding between Reb and Danny.
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